Peter Andre has been arrested for bumming Harvey in the swimming pool

[Spydogen]

The only reason she's "clever" at making money is the fact she appeals to tens of thousands of idiots who spend money on whatever it is she's whoring this month. She knows how to identify with the type of scum who are "fans" of her, because she is that scum herself.

That's good business if you ask me.  

[Pippin-Drill]

quite clever at making at money

The only reason she's "clever" at making money is the fact she appeals to tens of thousands of idiots who spend money on whatever it is she's whoring this month. She knows how to identify with the type of scum who are "fans" of her, because she is that scum herself.

So she's marketing something that she knows has mass appeal and making lots of money from it. Sounds pretty smart to me. Ok she may not know a lot about particle physics, but she is multi-millionaire, where I reckon many people who know a lot about paricle physics are not. There are many different types of intellegence. She  may not be book-smart, but there's something going on under those hair extensions.

[Silent Frog]

you are an ass clown.

This thread has some fantastic insults in it. I like!

[punksi]

quite clever at making at money

The only reason she's "clever" at making money is the fact she appeals to tens of thousands of idiots who spend money on whatever it is she's whoring this month. She knows how to identify with the type of scum who are "fans" of her, because she is that scum herself.

So she's marketing something that she knows has mass appeal and making lots of money from it. Sounds pretty smart to me. Ok she may not know a lot about particle physics, but she is multi-millionaire, where I reckon many people who know a lot about paricle physics are not. There are many different types of intellegence. She  may not be book-smart, but there's something going on under those hair extensions.

I think you give the woman FAR too much credit - she wouldn't be shacked up with a vacuous shit like Andre if she had half a brain. I think the MOST you can give her is that she has found herserlf a very savvy manager.

[nevermind]

to Pippin

[Android Lloyd Webber]

She's luverly, post modern woman innit.

what does that mean?

It means she has reclaimed her sexuality as her own and she is in control of it. She's able to be a mother and a wife and still be a sex object. It means she makes the money and there is no man holding the puppet strings. It means she has transcended the 'slag' tag, she's clearly unavailable by way of marriage and children yet men still buy into her sexuality.
She doesn't have to be anything, she doesn't have to sit in a pigeon hole, she just is, and it still sells.

So this is the postmodern woman? If Jordan is the bleeding edge of feminism then Women have liberated themselves into a vapid, horrible toilet.


I can't see her as a positive role-model. Sorry.

[x]

there's something going on under those hair extensions.

I bet you'd hate the bitch if she was repped by Max Clifford. And you can bet your bottom dollar she does have a good publicist, even if its not our Max. And I'll also wager that most of the money comes from those in her employ, such as publicists. I dunno why everyone assumes she's orchestrated this all herself. From the moment she wapped them out on page 3 she'll have had skilled middle-men tripping over themselves to make her money and take a slice. It does NOT mean she's smart.

[Pippin-Drill]

quite clever at making at money

The only reason she's "clever" at making money is the fact she appeals to tens of thousands of idiots who spend money on whatever it is she's whoring this month. She knows how to identify with the type of scum who are "fans" of her, because she is that scum herself.

So she's marketing something that she knows has mass appeal and making lots of money from it. Sounds pretty smart to me. Ok she may not know a lot about particle physics, but she is multi-millionaire, where I reckon many people who know a lot about paricle physics are not. There are many different types of intellegence. She  may not be book-smart, but there's something going on under those hair extensions.

I think you give the woman FAR too much credit - she wouldn't be shacked up with a vacuous shit like Andre if she had half a brain. I think the MOST you can give her is that she has found herserlf a very savvy manager.

Her relationship with said vacous shit, has given her more publicity than ever, its created even more of a brand, very clever IMO. She seems to be very swiched on when she speaks unlike a lot of the other glamour girls, and as I said before she is very self aware (I guess tha's why someone called her postmodern). Oh and she has raised a disabled child, when he buggered off, nobody seems to mention Harvey's dad who went and left her to do it by herself.

You are being really high-horse yourself today Ed. She has achieved loads, raised three kids, one disabled, yet you've acused her of causing her child's disableness hrough drug taking (unfounded), and saying she's thick. What makes you so fantastic that you can slate someone like that.

[nevermind]

^ So why's it happened to her? There are prettier girls out there.

[nevermind]

That was meant for noodle

[carrie]

She's luverly, post modern woman innit.

what does that mean?

It means she has reclaimed her sexuality as her own and she is in control of it. She's able to be a mother and a wife and still be a sex object. It means she makes the money and there is no man holding the puppet strings. It means she has transcended the 'slag' tag, she's clearly unavailable by way of marriage and children yet men still buy into her sexuality.
She doesn't have to be anything, she doesn't have to sit in a pigeon hole, she just is, and it still sells.

So this is the postmodern woman? If Jordan is the bleeding edge of feminism then Women have liberated themselves into a vapid, horrible toilet.


I can't see her as a positive role-model. Sorry.

Don't apologise, I can understand why people feel that way.

She's not vapid though, that's the brand that you're buying into. Don't you see? Liberation was about choice, she's certainly got it in spades and flaunts it. Is that what bothers people?

What is it about overtly sexual women that scares all you men so much?

[Ed Brock Out]

like someone said, harveys a good guy. the best episodes of Katie and Peter are harvey episodes. proper joker that lad

[x]

^ So why's it happened to her? There are prettier girls out there.

I was about 14-15 when she moved off page 3 and into FHM et al. I was their target market, and christ she was as hot if not hotter than any of them in those days. Tits weren't too far exaggerated, her skin was still good (or airbrushed really, really well) and her face was prettier and less angular and brutal back then too. Dunno if its age or excess face surgery but she's pretty dogged now compared to what she was. She was up there with Jo Guest for a few years, and then either her or (imo more likely) her manager/publicist made some good moves and now she's rich.

[Cabalist]

Harvey obviously harbours ill feelings for Peter Andre due to his anal intrusion.

http://www.youtube.com/v/QUGJWHWSdMA

[Android Lloyd Webber]

She's luverly, post modern woman innit.

what does that mean?

It means she has reclaimed her sexuality as her own and she is in control of it. She's able to be a mother and a wife and still be a sex object. It means she makes the money and there is no man holding the puppet strings. It means she has transcended the 'slag' tag, she's clearly unavailable by way of marriage and children yet men still buy into her sexuality.
She doesn't have to be anything, she doesn't have to sit in a pigeon hole, she just is, and it still sells.

So this is the postmodern woman? If Jordan is the bleeding edge of feminism then Women have liberated themselves into a vapid, horrible toilet.


I can't see her as a positive role-model. Sorry.

Don't apologise, I can understand why people feel that way.

She's not vapid though, that's the brand that you're buying into. Don't you see? Liberation was about choice, she's certainly got it in spades and flaunts it. Is that what bothers people?

What is it about overtly sexual women that scares all you men so much?

Scares?! No, I just think she's a twat.

[nevermind]

I'd hit it.

[Android Lloyd Webber]

Harvey?

[nevermind]

Andre

[Android Lloyd Webber]

Me too.

[punksi]

quite clever at making at money

The only reason she's "clever" at making money is the fact she appeals to tens of thousands of idiots who spend money on whatever it is she's whoring this month. She knows how to identify with the type of scum who are "fans" of her, because she is that scum herself.

So she's marketing something that she knows has mass appeal and making lots of money from it. Sounds pretty smart to me. Ok she may not know a lot about particle physics, but she is multi-millionaire, where I reckon many people who know a lot about paricle physics are not. There are many different types of intellegence. She  may not be book-smart, but there's something going on under those hair extensions.

I think you give the woman FAR too much credit - she wouldn't be shacked up with a vacuous shit like Andre if she had half a brain. I think the MOST you can give her is that she has found herserlf a very savvy manager.

Her relationship with said vacous shit, has given her more publicity than ever, its created even more of a brand, very clever IMO. She seems to be very swiched on when she speaks unlike a lot of the other glamour girls, and as I said before she is very self aware (I guess tha's why someone called her postmodern). Oh and she has raised a disabled child, when he buggered off, nobody seems to mention Harvey's dad who went and left her to do it by herself.

You are being really high-horse yourself today Ed. She has achieved loads, raised three kids, one disabled, yet you've acused her of causing her child's disableness hrough drug taking (unfounded), and saying she's thick. What makes you so fantastic that you can slate someone like that.

1) I don't need to be "fantastic" to be able to criticise others, we live in a (mostly) free country and we (mostly) have the free right of speech.

2) So you say she's clever by putting her next to other page-3 women? Sure she's got a little more going on than them but you're talking about the lowest common denominators there Em, hardly a mark of intelligence!

[Pippin-Drill]

quite clever at making at money

The only reason she's "clever" at making money is the fact she appeals to tens of thousands of idiots who spend money on whatever it is she's whoring this month. She knows how to identify with the type of scum who are "fans" of her, because she is that scum herself.

So she's marketing something that she knows has mass appeal and making lots of money from it. Sounds pretty smart to me. Ok she may not know a lot about particle physics, but she is multi-millionaire, where I reckon many people who know a lot about paricle physics are not. There are many different types of intellegence. She  may not be book-smart, but there's something going on under those hair extensions.

I think you give the woman FAR too much credit - she wouldn't be shacked up with a vacuous shit like Andre if she had half a brain. I think the MOST you can give her is that she has found herserlf a very savvy manager.

Her relationship with said vacous shit, has given her more publicity than ever, its created even more of a brand, very clever IMO. She seems to be very swiched on when she speaks unlike a lot of the other glamour girls, and as I said before she is very self aware (I guess tha's why someone called her postmodern). Oh and she has raised a disabled child, when he buggered off, nobody seems to mention Harvey's dad who went and left her to do it by herself.

You are being really high-horse yourself today Ed. She has achieved loads, raised three kids, one disabled, yet you've acused her of causing her child's disableness hrough drug taking (unfounded), and saying she's thick. What makes you so fantastic that you can slate someone like that.

1) I don't need to be "fantastic" to be able to criticise others, we live in a (mostly) free country and we (mostly) have the free right of speech.

2) So you say she's clever by putting her next to other page-3 women? Sure she's got a little more going on than them but you're talking about the lowest common denominators there Em, hardly a mark of intelligence!

No, I'm saying that there are many different types of intelligence, but people who have many intellectual intelligence often seem to disregard other types of intelligence.  The fact that in a saturated market of glamour modelling, she has come out as one of the most successful, the fact that she is aware of her popularity to a wide audience and has played to that audience and become very successful, to me shows a that she has a high degree of a certain type of intelligence. She knows exactly what people think of her and she plays on it, to me she does not come across as a puppet of PR or someone who is vulnerable to manipulation.

Some one mentioned Kerry Katona and Max Clifford, to me Kerry comes across as an incredibly manipulated person who is controlled by PR men and her husband, she seems vulnerable and tragic and a bit of a victim. Jordan has never come across that way to me. She hasn't moaned about being abandoned with a disabled son, she has shown immense pride in him and clearly adores him, she never seems to be without him, whereas Kerry never seems to be with her kids. Kerry has done so many stories about her tragic life, blaming her mother, while Jordan promotes herself rotten but never with a 'poor me' attitude. So I stand by what I said, I think Jordan is a smart girl and doesn't get enough credit, she may not be everyone's cup of tea, she's not even my cup of tea, but I admire her and I think, to an extent, she is a good role model. She may never win any Nobel prizes, but she's a good example of a savvy business woman who is also a good mother.

[punksi]

quite clever at making at money

The only reason she's "clever" at making money is the fact she appeals to tens of thousands of idiots who spend money on whatever it is she's whoring this month. She knows how to identify with the type of scum who are "fans" of her, because she is that scum herself.

So she's marketing something that she knows has mass appeal and making lots of money from it. Sounds pretty smart to me. Ok she may not know a lot about particle physics, but she is multi-millionaire, where I reckon many people who know a lot about paricle physics are not. There are many different types of intellegence. She  may not be book-smart, but there's something going on under those hair extensions.

I think you give the woman FAR too much credit - she wouldn't be shacked up with a vacuous shit like Andre if she had half a brain. I think the MOST you can give her is that she has found herserlf a very savvy manager.

Her relationship with said vacous shit, has given her more publicity than ever, its created even more of a brand, very clever IMO. She seems to be very swiched on when she speaks unlike a lot of the other glamour girls, and as I said before she is very self aware (I guess tha's why someone called her postmodern). Oh and she has raised a disabled child, when he buggered off, nobody seems to mention Harvey's dad who went and left her to do it by herself.

You are being really high-horse yourself today Ed. She has achieved loads, raised three kids, one disabled, yet you've acused her of causing her child's disableness hrough drug taking (unfounded), and saying she's thick. What makes you so fantastic that you can slate someone like that.

1) I don't need to be "fantastic" to be able to criticise others, we live in a (mostly) free country and we (mostly) have the free right of speech.

2) So you say she's clever by putting her next to other page-3 women? Sure she's got a little more going on than them but you're talking about the lowest common denominators there Em, hardly a mark of intelligence!

No, I'm saying that there are many different types of intelligence, but people who have many intellectual intelligence often seem to disregard other types of intelligence.  The fact that in a saturated market of glamour modelling, she has come out as one of the most successful, the fact that she is aware of her popularity to a wide audience and has played to that audience and become very successful, to me shows a that she has a high degree of a certain type of intelligence. She knows exactly what people think of her and she plays on it, to me she does not come across as a puppet of PR or someone who is vulnerable to manipulation.

Some one mentioned Kerry Katona and Max Clifford, to me Kerry comes across as an incredibly manipulated person who is controlled by PR men and her husband, she seems vulnerable and tragic and a bit of a victim. Jordan has never come across that way to me. She hasn't moaned about being abandoned with a disabled son, she has shown immense pride in him and clearly adores him, she never seems to be without him, whereas Kerry never seems to be with her kids. Kerry has done so many stories about her tragic life, blaming her mother, while Jordan promotes herself rotten but never with a 'poor me' attitude. So I stand by what I said, I think Jordan is a smart girl and doesn't get enough credit, she may not be everyone's cup of tea, she's not even my cup of tea, but I admire her and I think, to an extent, she is a good role model. She may never win any Nobel prizes, but she's a good example of a savvy business woman who is also a good mother.

I'm leaving work....hopefully see you at the Swan tonight so we can finish this discussion then!

[Pippin-Drill]

quite clever at making at money

The only reason she's "clever" at making money is the fact she appeals to tens of thousands of idiots who spend money on whatever it is she's whoring this month. She knows how to identify with the type of scum who are "fans" of her, because she is that scum herself.

So she's marketing something that she knows has mass appeal and making lots of money from it. Sounds pretty smart to me. Ok she may not know a lot about particle physics, but she is multi-millionaire, where I reckon many people who know a lot about paricle physics are not. There are many different types of intellegence. She  may not be book-smart, but there's something going on under those hair extensions.

I think you give the woman FAR too much credit - she wouldn't be shacked up with a vacuous shit like Andre if she had half a brain. I think the MOST you can give her is that she has found herserlf a very savvy manager.

Her relationship with said vacous shit, has given her more publicity than ever, its created even more of a brand, very clever IMO. She seems to be very swiched on when she speaks unlike a lot of the other glamour girls, and as I said before she is very self aware (I guess tha's why someone called her postmodern). Oh and she has raised a disabled child, when he buggered off, nobody seems to mention Harvey's dad who went and left her to do it by herself.

You are being really high-horse yourself today Ed. She has achieved loads, raised three kids, one disabled, yet you've acused her of causing her child's disableness hrough drug taking (unfounded), and saying she's thick. What makes you so fantastic that you can slate someone like that.

1) I don't need to be "fantastic" to be able to criticise others, we live in a (mostly) free country and we (mostly) have the free right of speech.

2) So you say she's clever by putting her next to other page-3 women? Sure she's got a little more going on than them but you're talking about the lowest common denominators there Em, hardly a mark of intelligence!

No, I'm saying that there are many different types of intelligence, but people who have many intellectual intelligence often seem to disregard other types of intelligence.  The fact that in a saturated market of glamour modelling, she has come out as one of the most successful, the fact that she is aware of her popularity to a wide audience and has played to that audience and become very successful, to me shows a that she has a high degree of a certain type of intelligence. She knows exactly what people think of her and she plays on it, to me she does not come across as a puppet of PR or someone who is vulnerable to manipulation.

Some one mentioned Kerry Katona and Max Clifford, to me Kerry comes across as an incredibly manipulated person who is controlled by PR men and her husband, she seems vulnerable and tragic and a bit of a victim. Jordan has never come across that way to me. She hasn't moaned about being abandoned with a disabled son, she has shown immense pride in him and clearly adores him, she never seems to be without him, whereas Kerry never seems to be with her kids. Kerry has done so many stories about her tragic life, blaming her mother, while Jordan promotes herself rotten but never with a 'poor me' attitude. So I stand by what I said, I think Jordan is a smart girl and doesn't get enough credit, she may not be everyone's cup of tea, she's not even my cup of tea, but I admire her and I think, to an extent, she is a good role model. She may never win any Nobel prizes, but she's a good example of a savvy business woman who is also a good mother.

I'm leaving work....hopefully see you at the Swan tonight so we can finish this discussion then!

Unfortunately I'm not out to night due to lack of funds and having to get up early tomorrow. But we need to meet up for a pint before xmas Mr xx

[punksi]

quite clever at making at money

The only reason she's "clever" at making money is the fact she appeals to tens of thousands of idiots who spend money on whatever it is she's whoring this month. She knows how to identify with the type of scum who are "fans" of her, because she is that scum herself.

So she's marketing something that she knows has mass appeal and making lots of money from it. Sounds pretty smart to me. Ok she may not know a lot about particle physics, but she is multi-millionaire, where I reckon many people who know a lot about paricle physics are not. There are many different types of intellegence. She  may not be book-smart, but there's something going on under those hair extensions.

I think you give the woman FAR too much credit - she wouldn't be shacked up with a vacuous shit like Andre if she had half a brain. I think the MOST you can give her is that she has found herserlf a very savvy manager.

Her relationship with said vacous shit, has given her more publicity than ever, its created even more of a brand, very clever IMO. She seems to be very swiched on when she speaks unlike a lot of the other glamour girls, and as I said before she is very self aware (I guess tha's why someone called her postmodern). Oh and she has raised a disabled child, when he buggered off, nobody seems to mention Harvey's dad who went and left her to do it by herself.

You are being really high-horse yourself today Ed. She has achieved loads, raised three kids, one disabled, yet you've acused her of causing her child's disableness hrough drug taking (unfounded), and saying she's thick. What makes you so fantastic that you can slate someone like that.

1) I don't need to be "fantastic" to be able to criticise others, we live in a (mostly) free country and we (mostly) have the free right of speech.

2) So you say she's clever by putting her next to other page-3 women? Sure she's got a little more going on than them but you're talking about the lowest common denominators there Em, hardly a mark of intelligence!

No, I'm saying that there are many different types of intelligence, but people who have many intellectual intelligence often seem to disregard other types of intelligence.  The fact that in a saturated market of glamour modelling, she has come out as one of the most successful, the fact that she is aware of her popularity to a wide audience and has played to that audience and become very successful, to me shows a that she has a high degree of a certain type of intelligence. She knows exactly what people think of her and she plays on it, to me she does not come across as a puppet of PR or someone who is vulnerable to manipulation.

Some one mentioned Kerry Katona and Max Clifford, to me Kerry comes across as an incredibly manipulated person who is controlled by PR men and her husband, she seems vulnerable and tragic and a bit of a victim. Jordan has never come across that way to me. She hasn't moaned about being abandoned with a disabled son, she has shown immense pride in him and clearly adores him, she never seems to be without him, whereas Kerry never seems to be with her kids. Kerry has done so many stories about her tragic life, blaming her mother, while Jordan promotes herself rotten but never with a 'poor me' attitude. So I stand by what I said, I think Jordan is a smart girl and doesn't get enough credit, she may not be everyone's cup of tea, she's not even my cup of tea, but I admire her and I think, to an extent, she is a good role model. She may never win any Nobel prizes, but she's a good example of a savvy business woman who is also a good mother.

I'm leaving work....hopefully see you at the Swan tonight so we can finish this discussion then!

Unfortunately I'm not out to night due to lack of funds and having to get up early tomorrow. But we need to meet up for a pint before xmas Mr xx

We do. Well hopefully Kate will get in in time for us to come for pre-drinks tonight. Also Poppy has suggested a posse outing to the duke of york.....wed or thurs next week.

[top cat]

Wow, I never knew Jordan stood for so much! Liberated woman, man scarer, business role model, class warrior. What a paragon of virtue and an example to us all.

[Night Wold feat. Maxi Priest]

Wow, I never knew Jordan stood for so much! Liberated woman, man scarer, business role model, class warrior. What a paragon of virtue and an example to us all.

nice tits as well

[Android Lloyd Webber]

Wow, I never knew Jordan stood for so much! Liberated woman, man scarer, business role model, class warrior. What a paragon of virtue and an example to us all.

I know - isn't it great! Here we were just thinking she was some spazzed-out car crash guttermouth slapper, but really she's been breaking new ground in the empowerment of women.

[Tom Blast]

^ So why's it happened to her? There are prettier girls out there.

I was about 14-15 when she moved off page 3 and into FHM et al. I was their target market, and christ she was as hot if not hotter than any of them in those days. Tits weren't too far exaggerated, her skin was still good (or airbrushed really, really well) and her face was prettier and less angular and brutal back then too. Dunno if its age or excess face surgery but she's pretty dogged now compared to what she was. She was up there with Jo Guest for a few years, and then either her or (imo more likely) her manager/publicist made some good moves and now she's rich.

She was super hot before she started all the surgery IMO. I remember when they ran the public vote asking should she get her boobs done, and the majority voted against. Shame she didn't listen I reckon. 

Also, This isn't the first time it has been suggested that she's a lot more clued up and savvy than most people give her credit for.

I have to confess though (don't want to add fuel to the fire) I was kinda under the impression that it was widely accepted she had been smashing up the booze and drugs whilst pregnant and this contributed to Harvey's condition... There were certainly a fair few pics of her in the papers stumbling out of clubs looking very much the worse for wear whilst she was pretty heavily pregnant. 

[bbbbbbbb]

Her relationship with said vacous shit, has given her more publicity than ever, its created even more of a brand, very clever IMO.

So she married to support her career and create a brand

is rich

and she's a better person than katona

I've nothing against Jordan in particular but essentially she's sold her whole life to the public. While I accept she's probably the best of a bad bunch in comparison to the Marsh/Chantelle etc that whole celebrity market is something I can't help but look down on with an element of disgust, although thats probably more accurately aimed at the morons that consume the product.

Are those really the achievements and standards that modern women admire?

I struggle to see where there is any genuine talent or substance in any of it. "I should be admired and worshiped because my surgeon gave me big tits" ....... well done.

[Hooty]

^ So why's it happened to her? There are prettier girls out there.

I was about 14-15 when she moved off page 3 and into FHM et al. I was their target market, and christ she was as hot if not hotter than any of them in those days. Tits weren't too far exaggerated, her skin was still good (or airbrushed really, really well) and her face was prettier and less angular and brutal back then too. Dunno if its age or excess face surgery but she's pretty dogged now compared to what she was. She was up there with Jo Guest for a few years, and then either her or (imo more likely) her manager/publicist made some good moves and now she's rich.

She was super hot before she started all the surgery IMO. I remember when they ran the public vote asking should she get her boobs done, and the majority voted against. Shame she didn't listen I reckon. 

Also, This isn't the first time it has been suggested that she's a lot more clued up and savvy than most people give her credit for.

I have to confess though (don't want to add fuel to the fire) I was kinda under the impression that it was widely accepted she had been smashing up the booze and drugs whilst pregnant and this contributed to Harvey's condition... There were certainly a fair few pics of her in the papers stumbling out of clubs looking very much the worse for wear whilst she was pretty heavily pregnant. 

I don't remember any.

I think Jordan is many things, but I never actually had her down as a coke head.

[The T.I.B.]

I thought you were talking about Harvey from so solid crew. Oh well 

[Spit]

Her relationship with said vacous shit, has given her more publicity than ever, its created even more of a brand, very clever IMO.

So she married to support her career and create a brand

is rich

and she's a better person than katona

I've nothing against Jordan in particular but essentially she's sold her whole life to the public. While I accept she's probably the best of a bad bunch in comparison to the Marsh/Chantelle etc that whole celebrity market is something I can't help but look down on with an element of disgust, although thats probably more accurately aimed at the morons that consume the product.

Are those really the achievements and standards that modern women admire?

I struggle to see where there is any genuine talent or substance in any of it. "I should be admired and worshiped because my surgeon gave me big tits" ....... well done.

I think there are two arguments here; one over whether she's a positive role model, and one over whether she's just a moron. I don't think anyone would claim the former, but she knows damn well what she's doing and has done for a long time- as you hint at Beany, she's only playing the public for the fools they are.

For the record, she's no chav either, she had a pretty middle-class upbringing.

[Breakwhore]

I think there are two arguments here; one over whether she's a positive role model, and one over whether she's just a moron. I don't think anyone would claim the former

Wrong.

I admire her and I think, to an extent, she is a good role model.

I can't stand her and can't even be bothered to explain why.

[Evs]

 

[bloke]

What is it about overtly sexual women that scares all you men so much?

in fairness i think the reverse can also be true, i think it's more accurate to say that anyone being overtly sexual can be scary, and men cop just as much flack for this, if not more.

personally, i love dirty women,  it can be scary if (for instance) a young lady asks me to dance then immediately starts grinding against my willy without so much as a by your leave or formal introduction but i like it when that kind of thing happens all the same, as long as i fancy the lady in question, otherwise it's just awkward & i can turn a bit hostile, especially if they persist.

that said i am very feminine so probably not the best insight into the mind of teh alpha male