Interesting story about NDE

[P to the D]

Mellen-Thomas Benedict is an artist who survived a near-death experience in 1982. He was dead for over an hour and a half and during that time, he rose up out of his body and went into the Light." Curious about the universe, he was taken far into the remote depths of existence, and even beyond, into the energetic Void of Nothingness behind the Big Bang. Dr. Kenneth Ring has said, "His story is one of the most remarkable I have encountered in my
extensive research on near-death experiences."

THE ROAD TO DEATH - a personal story
"In 1982 I died from terminal cancer. My condition was non-operable. I chose
not to have chemotherapy. I was given six to eight months to live. Before this time, I had become increasingly despondent over the nuclear crisis, the ecology crisis, and so forth. I came to believe that nature had made a mistake -that we were probably a cancerous organism on the planet. And that is what eventually killed me. Before my death, I tried all sorts of alternative healing methods. None helped. So I determined that this was between God and me. I had never really considered God. Neither was I into any kind of spirituality, but my approaching death sent me on a quest for more information about spirituality and alternative healing. I read various religions and philosophies. They gave hope that there was something on the other side.

I had no medical insurance, so my life savings went overnight on tests. Unwilling to drag my family into this, I determined to handle this myself. I ended up in hospice care and was blessed with an angel for my hospice caretaker, whom I will call "Anne." She stayed with me through all that was to follow. It lasted about eighteen months.

THE LIGHT OF GOD
I woke up about 4:30 am and I knew that this was it. I was going to die. I called a few friends and said good-bye. I woke up Anne and made her promise that my dead body would remain undisturbed for six hours, since I had read that all kinds of interesting things happen when you die. I went back to sleep. The next thing I remember, I was fully aware and standing up. Yet my body was lying in the bed. I seemed to be surrounded by darkness, yet I could see every room in the house, and the roof, and even under the house.


A Light shone; I turned toward it, and was aware of its similarity to what others have described in near-death experiences. It was magnificent and tangible, alluring. I wanted to go towards that Light like I might want to go into my ideal mother or father's arms. As I moved towards the Light, I knew that if I went into the Light, I would be dead. So I said/felt, "Please
wait. I would like to talk to you before I go."

The entire experience halted. I discovered that I was in control of the entire experience. My request was honoured. I had conversations with the Light. That's the best way I can describe it. The Light changed into different figures, like Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, mandalas, archetypal images and signs. I asked in a kind of telepathy, "What is going on here?"

The information transmitted was that our beliefs shape the kind of feedback we receive: If you are a Buddhist or Catholic or Fundamentalist, you get a feedback loop of your own images. I became aware of a Higher Self matrix, a conduit to the Source. We all have a Higher Self, or an oversoul part of our being, a conduit. All Higher Selves are connected as one being; all humans are connected as one being. We are literally the same being. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. It was like all the love you've every wanted, and it was the kind of love that cures, heals, regenerates.

I was ready to go at that time. I said "I am ready, take me." Then the Light turned into the most beautiful thing that I have ever seen: a mandala of human souls on this planet. I saw that we are the most beautiful creations - elegant, exotic . . .everything. I just cannot say enough about how it changed my opinion of human beings in an instant. I said/thought/felt, "Oh, God, I didn't realize."

I was astonished to find that there was no evil in any soul. People may do terrible things out of ignorance and lack, but no soul is evil. What all people seek, what sustains them, is love, the Light told me. What distorts people is a lack of love. The revelations went on and on. I asked, "Does this mean that humankind will be saved?"

Like a trumpet blast with a shower of spiralling lights, the Light "spoke," saying, "You save, redeem and heal yourself. You always have and always will. You were created with the power to do so from before the beginning of the world."

In that instant I realized that WE HAVE ALREADY BEEN SAVED; this is what the "Second Coming" is about. I thanked the Light of God with all my heart. The best thing I could come up with was: "Oh dear God, dear Universe, dear Great Self, I love my Life." The Light seemed to breathe me in even more deeply, absorbing me. I entered into another realm more profound than the last, and was aware of an enormous stream of Light, vast and full, deep. I asked what it was. The Light answered, "This is the RIVER OF LIFE. Drink of this manna water to your heart's content." I drank deeply, in ecstasy.

THE VOID OF NOTHINGNESS
Suddenly I seemed to be rocketing away from the planet on this stream of Life. I saw the earth fly away. The solar system whizzed by and disappeared. I flew through the centre of the galaxy, absorbing more knowledge as I went. I learned that this galaxy, and the entire Universe, is bursting with many different varieties of life. I saw many worlds. We are not alone in this Universe.

It seemed as if all the creations in the Universe soared past me and vanished in a speck of Light. Almost immediately, a second Light appeared. As I passed into the second Light, I could perceive forever, beyond Infinity. I was in the Void, pre-Creation, the beginning of time, the first Word or vibration.

I rested in the Eye of Creation and it seemed that I touched the Face of God. It was not a religious feeling. I was simply at One with Absolute Life and Consciousness. It would take me years to assimilate the Void experience. It was less than nothing yet greater than anything. Creation is God exploring God's Self through every way imaginable. Through every piece of
hair on your head, through every leaf on every tree, through every atom, God is exploring God's Self. I saw everything as the Self of all. God is here. That's what it is all about. Everything is made of light; everything is alive.

THE LIGHT OF LOVE
I rode the stream directly into the centre of the Light. I felt embraced by the Light as it took me in with its breath again. And the truth was obvious that there is no death; that nothing is born and nothing dies; that we are immortal beings, part of a natural living system that recycles itself endlessly.

I was never told that I had to come back. I just knew that I would. It was only natural, from what I had seen. As I began my return to the life cycle, it never crossed my mind, nor was I told, that I would return to the same body. It did not matter. I had complete trust in the Light and the Life process. As the stream merged with the great Light, I asked never to forget
the revelations and the feelings of what I had learned on the other side. I thought of myself as a human again and I was happy to be that.

From what I have seen, I would be happy to be an atom in this universe. An atom. So to be the human part of God ... this is the most fantastic blessing. It is a blessing beyond our wildest estimation of what blessing can be. For each and every one of us to be the human part of this
experience is awesome, and magnificent. Each and every one of us, no matter where we are, screwed up or not, is a blessing to the planet, right where we are. So, I went through the reincarnation process expecting to be a baby somewhere.

But I reincarnated back into this body. I was so surprised when I opened my eyes, to be back in this body, back in my room with someone looking over me, crying her eyes out. It was "Anne," my hospice caretaker. She had found me dead thirty minutes before. We do not know how long I was dead, only that she found me thirty minutes before. She had honoured my wish to have my newly dead body left alone. She can verify that I really was dead. It was not a near-death experience. I believe I probably experienced death itself for at least an hour and a half. When I awakened and saw the light outside.

Confused, I tried to get up to go to it, but I fell out of the bed. She heard a loud "clunk", ran in and found me on the floor. When I recovered, I was surprised and awed about what had happened, I had no memory at first of the experience. I kept slipping out of this world and kept asking, "Am I alive?" This world seemed more like a dream than that one. Within three days, I was feeling normal again, clearer, yet different than ever before.

My memories of the journey came back later. But from my return I could find nothing wrong with any human being I had ever seen. Previous to my death I was judgmental, believing that people were really screwed up. Everyone but me. About three months later a friend said I should get tested for the cancer, so I got the scans and so forth. I felt healthy. I still remember the doctor at the clinic looking at the "before" and "after" scans. He said, "I can find no sign of cancer now." "A miracle?" I asked. "No," he answered. “These things happen . . . spontaneous remission." He seemed unimpressed. But I was impressed, and knew it was a miracle.

LESSONS LEARNED
The Great Mystery of life has little to do with intelligence. The universe is not an intellectual process. The intellect is helpful; but our hearts are the wiser part of us. Since my return I have experienced the Light spontaneously, and I have learned how to get to that space almost any time in my meditation. You can also do this. You do not have to die first. You are wired for it already.

The body is the most magnificent Light being there is. The body is a universe of incredible Light. Spirit is not pushing us to dissolve this body. We don't need to commune with God; God is communing with us in every moment. I asked God: "What is the best religion on the planet? Which one is right?" God said with great love: "I don't care." What an incredible grace. It does not matter what religion we are. Religions come and they go, they change. Buddhism has not been here forever, Catholicism has not been here forever, and they are all about to become more enlightened. More light is coming into all Systems now.

Many will resist and fight about it, one religion against the next, believing that only they are right. When Godhead said, "I don't care," I understood that it is for us to care about, because we are the caring beings. The Source does not care if you are Protestant, Buddhist, or Jew. Each is a reflection, a facet of the whole. I wish that all religions would realize it and let each other be. It is not the end of separate religions, but live and let live. Each has a different view. And it all adds up to the big picture.

I went over to the other side with a lot of fears about toxic waste, nuclear missiles, the population explosion, and the rain forests. I came back loving every single problem. I love nuclear waste. I love the mushroom cloud; this is the holiest mandala that we have manifested to date, as an archetype. More than any religion or philosophy on earth, that terrible, wonderful cloud brought us together all of a sudden, to a new level of consciousness. Knowing that maybe we can blow up the planet fifty times, or 500 times, we finally realize that maybe we are all here together now. For a period they had to keep setting off more bombs to get it into us. Then we started saying, "we do not need this anymore." Now we are actually in a safer world than we have ever been in, and it is going to get safer. So I came back loving toxic waste, because it brought us together. These things are so big.

Clearing of the rain forest will slow down, and in fifty years there will be more trees on the planet than in a long time. If you are into ecology, go for it; you are that part of the system that is becoming aware. Go for it with all your might, but do not be depressed or disheartened. Earth is in the process of domesticating itself and we are cells on that Body.

Population increase is getting very close to the optimal range of energy to cause a shift in consciousness. That shift in consciousness will change politics, money, and energy.

What happens when we dream? We are multi-dimensional beings. We can access that through lucid dreaming. In fact, this universe is God's dream. One of the things that I saw is that us humans are a speck on a planet, which is a speck in a galaxy that is a speck. Those are giant systems out there, and we are in sort of an average system. But human beings are already legendary throughout the cosmos of consciousness.

The little bitty human being of Earth/Gaia is legendary. One of the things that we are legendary for is dreaming. We are legendary dreamers. In fact, the whole cosmos has been looking for the meaning of life, the meaning of it all. And it was the little dreamer who came up with the best answer ever.
We dreamed it up. So dreams are important.

After dying and coming back, I really respect life and death. In our DNA experiments we may have opened the door to a great secret. Soon we will be able to live as long as we want to live in this body. After living 150 years or so, there will be an intuitive soul sense that you will want to change channels. Living forever in one body is not as creative as reincarnation, as transferring energy in this fantastic vortex of energy that we are in. We are actually going to see the wisdom of life and death, and enjoy it. As it is now, we have already been alive forever.

Don't ask yourself what the world needs.
Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go and do that.
Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.
Harold Whitman

[bloke]

i enjoyed reading that... sounds similar to one or two others i've read

[soulshakerbristol]

Thanks for posting that. Its a truly fascinating subject, I enjoyed reading that very much.

[PIN MONEY]

Nice read, also made me feel a bit less bad about generally being a cunt- it's beautiful, apparently

[Block Party]

Mr Benedict would appear to be someone who doesn't mind ripping people off in order to "improve" their lives

http://www.eftbooks.com/mellen.html

So I have no faith in his claimed NDE.

[dam0 - Magik Bullet]

Interesting read littered with religious mumbo jumbo.

[Wes G]

  here fishy fishy

[Android Lloyd Webber]

Is this from Charlie Chaospacks' website?

[Whagwan]

I had that with Acid once.

[bloke]

supposedly the pineal gland releases a huge amount of dmt when you're born & when you die

[P to the D]

Mr Benedict would appear to be someone who doesn't mind ripping people off in order to "improve" their lives

http://www.eftbooks.com/mellen.html

So I have no faith in his claimed NDE.

Never seen that, only found his story through the work of Kenneth Ring and Raymond Moody, and just liked what he was saying, I thought it was beautiful.

[Wes G]

here you go this is nice too but real http://www.inspirationline.com/images/babyElephant.jpg

[P to the D]

supposedly the pineal gland releases a huge amount of dmt when you're born & when you die

Raymond Moody, (Psychologist who does most of the research on this) has explored this, but the only thing that brain chemicals can't explain is how often the people having the NDE can  see beyond their peripheral view and describe rooms and people around them, when they are apparently 'dead' (ie flat lining, no brain activity); they have even been able to describe things outside of their rooms.

Also he has studied NDErs from all walks of life, all religions, all countries and all ages (even small children) and they all have very similar experiences, even if their religious conditioning or lack of have conditioned them to expect something different.

There is also very little reason for the chemical to kick in at this time. If the body is trying to survive death and pain, then adrenaline and endorphines kick in to try and preserve life and limit suffering, endorphines are very powerful pain relievers that the body produces, and they can make you feel euphoric, so a lot of the NDE could be due to that, however most of the NDE stories come from people who have been technically dead, and then brought back, so these chemicals would be useless. Also when our bodies produce these chemicals in non-life threatening situations - atheletes who produce copious amounts of both endorphines and adrenaline when training - they don't experience the NDE experience.

[Wes G]

supposedly the pineal gland releases a huge amount of dmt when you're born & when you die

Raymond Moody, (Psychologist who does most of the research on this) has explored this, but the only thing that brain chemicals can't explain is how often the people having the NDE can  see beyond their peripheral view and describe rooms and people around them, when they are apparently 'dead' (ie flat lining, no brain activity); they have even been able to describe things outside of their rooms.

Also he has studied NDErs from all walks of life, all religions, all countries and all ages (even small children) and they all have very similar experiences, even if their religious conditioning or lack of have conditioned them to expect something different.

There is also very little reason for the chemical to kick in at this time. If the body is trying to survive death and pain, then adrenaline and endorphines kick in to try and preserve life and limit suffering, endorphines are very powerful pain relievers that the body produces, and they can make you feel euphoric, so a lot of the NDE could be due to that, however most of the NDE stories come from people who have been technically dead, and then brought back, so these chemicals would be useless. Also when our bodies produce these chemicals in non-life threatening situations - atheletes who produce copious amounts of both endorphines and adrenaline when training - they don't experience the NDE experience.

[/size]

its called a head rush , then you black out.. as for seeing the light well its just a dream , your brain trying to work it out then overloads on its own answers.

[PIN MONEY]

Sounds like a trip still. Perhaps the accurate description of stuff outside of the room etc could be due to the brain recalling information it had only gleaned subconsciously?

[Wes G]

Sounds like a trip still. Perhaps the accurate description of stuff outside of the room etc could be due to the brain recalling information it had only gleaned subconsciously?

thats what it is... flicking through its bank of images .. its not like your going to experience something you've never encountered is it.. and with all the mentalist movies that we watch in our lives the final dream is bound to b wicked.

[P to the D]

Sounds like a trip still. Perhaps the accurate description of stuff outside of the room etc could be due to the brain recalling information it had only gleaned subconsciously?
[/quote

They've done research on blind people who have still managed to describe things in the room.

[PIN MONEY]

Well, if true, that certainly shits on my unqualified speculation. But how could a blind person describe anything? You'd have to have seen stuff to refer to surely? Unless they weren't blind from birth. That would make sense. Yeah.

[Wes G]

what did they describe ? a dog and a stick and a panic button (but cant b sure of the colour)

[Block Party]

http://www.skepdic.com/moody.html Skeptic's take on Raymond Moody
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Moody Slightly more about him from Wiki

[tko]

Is this from Charlie Chaospacks' website?

 

I think you would actually see Charlie beckoning you up to heaven through the medium of dance.

[P to the D]

Well, if true, that certainly shits on my unqualified speculation. But how could a blind person describe anything? You'd have to have seen stuff to refer to surely? Unless they weren't blind from birth. That would make sense. Yeah.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence03.html

[P to the D]

http://www.skepdic.com/moody.html Skeptic's take on Raymond Moody

So does that website actually prove him wrong or discredit him, or just mock him?

[Android Lloyd Webber]

I got about half way through the original post, but can't be bothered to read the rest. Can somebody make a recording of it being read out over a banging donk, please?

[Block Party]

http://www.skepdic.com/moody.html Skeptic's take on Raymond Moody

So does that website actually prove him wrong or discredit him, or just mock him?

It's more mocking of the ABC reporter who went to his research facility. It doesn't discredit him nor mock him really, just information about who he is and how he conducts his research.

[Typowriter]

It's a very interesting subject but unfortunately there are so many charlatans it makes facts difficult to find. Everytime I read an article on it I find myself looking for the authors scam angle, it's annoying really. It would be really nice if someone who had a near death experience didn't rise it for all it was worth with a series of shoddy self published books.
 
That's not a criticism of this piece though, it's a straightforward unifying idea and an interesting story.
 

[Richard Carnage]

From wiki:

"Moody.... currently lives in rural Alabama."
"Moody has also researched past life regression and believes that he personally has had nine past lives."
"In an interview in 1993, Moody stated he was placed in a mental hospital by his family for his work with mirror gazing."

In a word.... mental.

[Dan Alive!]

The idea that there's all these motherfucking cunts made of light swanning around carrying the answers to all of life's most difficult questions and not fucking telling us irks the shit out of me. If they're all so blissfully at peace and swimming with love and truth and pissing rainbows made of serenity then surely they'd be nice enough to pop down, have a quiet word with everyone and leave us all feeling a bit better about this shithole planet we're stuck on. But OOOOOH NOOOO, they only talk to nutters, outcasts and people who's own family have them committed to mental asylums.

And that is why I can't take any of this shit seriously. On the plus side, we all get to find out for sure sooner or later.

[B'Tol]

And thus the life is sucked out of another thread...

It made for an interesting read all the same.

[tko]

The idea that there's all these motherfucking cunts made of light swanning around carrying the answers to all of life's most difficult questions and not fucking telling us irks the shit out of me. If they're all so blissfully at peace and swimming with love and truth and pissing rainbows made of serenity then surely they'd be nice enough to pop down, have a quiet word with everyone and leave us all feeling a bit better about this shithole planet we're stuck on. But OOOOOH NOOOO, they only talk to nutters, outcasts and people who's own family have them committed to mental asylums.

You sound like someone who has never seen the Living TV documentary series 'Most Haunted' - get to know.

[P to the D]

The idea that there's all these motherfucking cunts made of light swanning around carrying the answers to all of life's most difficult questions and not fucking telling us irks the shit out of me. If they're all so blissfully at peace and swimming with love and truth and pissing rainbows made of serenity then surely they'd be nice enough to pop down, have a quiet word with everyone and leave us all feeling a bit better about this shithole planet we're stuck on. But OOOOOH NOOOO, they only talk to nutters, outcasts and people who's own family have them committed to mental asylums.

And that is why I can't take any of this shit seriously. On the plus side, we all get to find out for sure sooner or later.

Some of us still see the beauty in the world and keep an open mind even when life pisses all over us.

[bloke]

i suspect most people'd get pretty freaked out if a motherfucking cunt made of light popped down for a quiet word with them

[Dan Alive!]

And thus the life is sucked out of another thread...

It made for an interesting read all the same.

So, actually being rational "sucks the life out of stuff" now does it? :semi-teeth:

@Pip: I rant, it doesn't mean I don't spend the vast majority of my time feeling that the world is actually pretty ace. Its what you make of it, after all. But really, the idea that my grandma is in some other dimension and knows what 42 really is and is capable of telling me but doesn't, and neither does your grandma, or his, or hers, or anyones.... Thats a consipiracy in the afterlife bigger than any alleged political conspiracy ever proposed in our society. And I don't believe those, so seeing this as I do I'm inclined not to believe it.

[P to the D]

i suspect most people'd get pretty freaked out if a motherfucking cunt made of light popped down for a quiet word with them

Its a bit of a paradox. As noodle says the only people who ever claim to have spoken to beings of lights are 'nutters'; however the fact that skeptics deem all people who have claimed to have had a glimpse of another world or a spiritual experience they are deemed a 'nutter', it's only ever going to be 'nutters' who see them... even skeptics who have had NDE have then found themselves more open to spirituality are not taken seriously by the skeptics so how is anyone ever going to feel free to share their experiences without being labelled mentally below par.

[bloke]

i'd say thats a very good point, people who have visual or auditory hallucinations are generally considered mad

[P to the D]

And thus the life is sucked out of another thread...

It made for an interesting read all the same.

So, actually being rational "sucks the life out of stuff" now does it? :semi-teeth:

@Pip: I rant, it doesn't mean I don't spend the vast majority of my time feeling that the world is actually pretty ace. Its what you make of it, after all. But really, the idea that my grandma is in some other dimension and knows what 42 really is and is capable of telling me but doesn't, and neither does your grandma, or his, or hers, or anyones.... Thats a consipiracy in the afterlife bigger than any alleged political conspiracy ever proposed in our society. And I don't believe those, so seeing this as I do I'm inclined not to believe it.

But even if they did you wouldn't believe it. There have been hundreds of books written by people chanelling spirits with philosophies about life, death and the universe. Look at the books of Silver Birch (the most famous). But you are a skeptic, so you'll never believe it, I doubt you'd even read the books written about it.

[P to the D]

i'd say thats a very good point, people who have visual or auditory hallucinations are generally considered mad

What I liked about Moody is that he spent 20 years interviewing people who had claimed to have had NDE from all walks of life, including children, and analyzed the data, looked at other possibilities for their experiences and then wrote about them. He researched. I don't know what he's doing now about mirrors, I've yet to read it, but the point is he is experimenting and researching and listening to people without judging them. Scientists demand research and that's what he does, he himself is frustrated by his limitations and tries to overcome them. I find his books really good, and would recommend them.

[bloke]

to be honest i think a lot of this channelled stuff is just as likely to be coming from the channels own mind as from some other source, and even if it is coming from some spirit being, how would anyone be sure of it's credentials or intentions, or indeed that it is who it says it is?

from my understanding david icke got a bit messed up like this, i've never read any of his books apart from a quick look in shops once or twice, i got a bit turned off when he started describing this voice in his mind that started talking to him and making suggestions and/or telling him what to do... i suspect the same voice gave him a lot of his theories about lizards etc

[bloke]

i think the mirrors is a technique whereby people go into a trance in front of a mirror and eventually start hallucinating, they see their face shift and move or see other faces overlaid on top of theirs

i know a woman here who is into a spiritual teacher called john de ruita... she'd been to the town in the states where he lives with loads of his followers.

she said a lot of them see his face shifting and moving like this during meetings

they have speculated that it's his past lives appearing on his face, and i suspect this is the explanation they want to believe

one of my neighbours got into the jesus army and i was looking on cult info sites to see just how dodgy they were, and john de ruitas name popped up... unconnected with them of course, he had his own page

turns out his meetings involve lots of silence and he sits and stares at people intently for long periods, i suspect this entrances them in the same way as if they sat in a relaxed state in front of a mirror, the serotonin & dmt in their brains starts to fire, & hey presto

as for this moody chap, i'd say his family freaked and had him commited after he started spending hours or days at a time doing this, getting really spaced out and talking about past lives and other dimensions, he may have become unable to function normally, cross the street safely etc.

[P to the D]

i think the mirrors is a technique whereby people go into a trance in front of a mirror and eventually start hallucinating, they see their face shift and move or see other faces overlaid on top of theirs

i know a woman here who is into a spiritual teacher called john de ruita... she'd been to the town in the states where he lives with loads of his followers.

she said a lot of them see his face shifting and moving like this during meetings

they have speculated that it's his past lives appearing on his face, and i suspect this is the explanation they want to believe

one of my neighbours got into the jesus army and i was looking on cult info sites to see just how dodgy they were, and john de ruitas name popped up... unconnected with them of course, he had his own page

turns out his meetings involve lots of silence and he sits and stares at people intently for long periods, i suspect this entrances them in the same way as if they sat in a relaxed state in front of a mirror, the serotonin & dmt in their brains starts to fire, & hey presto

I've not really read much about it but I think I will. I've been to see trance mediums, with mixed results. One or two I've seen sitting in trace I've actually seen other faces appear over their own, this was a long time ago, but I can remember thinking how amazing they looked. Others seemed to be complete frauds... just spouting cod philosophy in a fake Indian accent  I don't think the likes of old cranks like Derek Accorah do spirituality any good, I totally cringe when I see him apparently 'possessed' by spirits. The TV execs obviously tell him to put on a dhow. It is sad that most people's only view of spiritual study come from these TV paranormal shows, they are terrible and crass. A genuine interest into study parapsychology and spiritual matters should be done without showbiz and should not be used to make money or to promote fame, as this creates temptation for fraudulent behaviour and the exploitation of vulnerable people. I don't think anyone claiming to be psychic or a medium should be allowed to charge money, it should all be done in the name of research and mutual experimentation.

Well that's my opinion anyway.

[bloke]

as well as money, theres the possibility of sex or just approval from other people, the potential to influence them etc

i'd say there's a lot of potential for power trips with this kind of thing, the psychic gets some plausible results, people start telling them that he or she is wonderful & powerful and it goes to their heads.

[P to the D]

as well as money, theres the possibility of sex or just approval from other people, the potential to influence them etc

i'd say there's a lot of potential for power trips with this kind of thing, the psychic gets some plausible results, people start telling them that he or she is wonderful & powerful and it goes to their heads.

Do you personally find psychic ability a sexual turn on?

[bloke]

no, but i can see how a medium might have a fitty in his seance and have the urge to impress her, thinking he might get his end away if she thinks he's wonderful & powerful & psychic enough... human nature

[Typowriter]

Some of us still see the beauty in the world and keep an open mind even when life pisses all over us.

Hello new sig quote.
 

[P to the D]

no, but i can see how a medium might have a fitty in his seance and have the urge to impress her, thinking he might get his end away if she thinks he's wonderful & powerful & psychic enough... human nature

I think there are easier ways to seduce a woman.

Can it not be that some people have a genuine interest in the paranormal and the possibility of an afterlife, that have felt the touch of something divine or otherworldly, that they have a belief system that they want to enforce though research, discussion and experimentation. That some people feel that personal experience has truly lead them to believe in the paranormal or an afterlife and they want to share that experience, to push the boundaries. Must they have a motive?

I've been going to spiritual groups and development circles for 15 years and I find those that also attend very down to earth and normal, they just have an interest in spiritual matters and want to explore possibilities. A lot of meditating is done, so is spiritual healing to help those who are suffering. I've never once seen someone swooning in an attempt to get laid. The general aim is to find spiritual truths (and mistruths), not to learn how to con people, in fact fraudulent 'psychics' tend to be seen as one of the main obstacles to what we try and achieve. Some people just have an interest and a belief in a spirit world, why do they have to be trying to gain something. And if so why on earth would I keep on about my beliefs on here when I know I only get laughed at or challenged? I'm certainly not getting money, fame or sex out of it, usually just ridicule.

I'm not trying to be defensive, just sharing my experiences as I want you to know that we're not all Derek Accorahs and John Edwards.

[P to the D]

Some of us still see the beauty in the world and keep an open mind even when life pisses all over us.

Hello new sig quote.
 

 

Unless you are mocking me?  though I am used to it by now!

[bloke]

i think theres a bit of a power imbalance between medium/teacher/guru or whatever & student

i think what i was driving at was that just removing money from the equation still leaves lots of room for corruption of one sort or another, and it could even be that people doing it for no money will start to expect or want something in return of some kind

i did a bit of martial arts here & in holland... the dutch teachers tend to charge & i generally found easy to deal with, the ones i had in england were all doing it for nothing or petrol money & were largely bit weird in one way or another imo... or the main big cheeses anyway, generally the less senior teachers were ok but had their quirks

i think people can be into this kind of stuff out of interest, and that if they're honest with themselves about their motivations then it's probably alright... but playing mr nice guy whiter than white spiritual master, or having a bunch of disciples treating them like that can end in tears, in my opinion

[Typowriter]

Some of us still see the beauty in the world and keep an open mind even when life pisses all over us.

Hello new sig quote.
 

 

Unless you are mocking me?  though I am used to it by now!

I'm absolutely not mocking you at all. It's a great quote and I'm keeping it.
 

[Whagwan]

And thus the life is sucked out of another thread...

It made for an interesting read all the same.

So, actually being rational "sucks the life out of stuff" now does it? :semi-teeth:

@Pip: I rant, it doesn't mean I don't spend the vast majority of my time feeling that the world is actually pretty ace. Its what you make of it, after all. But really, the idea that my grandma is in some other dimension and knows what 42 really is and is capable of telling me but doesn't, and neither does your grandma, or his, or hers, or anyones.... Thats a consipiracy in the afterlife bigger than any alleged political conspiracy ever proposed in our society. And I don't believe those, so seeing this as I do I'm inclined not to believe it.

'It is enough that the garden is beautiful, without having to believe there are fairies at the bottom of it.'  Douglas Adams.

[P to the D]

Some of us still see the beauty in the world and keep an open mind even when life pisses all over us.

Hello new sig quote.
 

 

Unless you are mocking me?  though I am used to it by now!

I'm absolutely not mocking you at all. It's a great quote and I'm keeping it.
 

  sorry to of doubted you.