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4G (well maybe 3.5g) in bristol from april

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Zat0ichi
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« on: February 24, 2012, 08:50:51 »

http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2154554/planning-bristol-4g-trial-ahead-spectrum-auctions
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2012, 09:14:59 »

What's your take on it Z?
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Zat0ichi
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2012, 09:41:22 »

The holy grail of mobile data is being access my own content server, away from centrally controlled cloud servers.

You need about 10Mb download for HD content and with this 3.5g operating at 'upto 21Mb' that means 10mb is likely.

So running a phone as a dumb terminal just receiving the screen output from a home PC at >24fps is now possible.

No need for uber quad core CPUs in phones.
The ping would be terrible and the controls awkward but conceivably I could play BF3/skyrim etc on my phone anywhere anywhen.
Also means I could watch standard TV, any film, any music I have and basically have full access to my gaming rig..


There's rumors abound that it will interfere with TV signals, also the available bandwidth from mobile masts is an unknown. (i've tried to find that out but couldn't)

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quote from: confucius in 578bc @ about teatime
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance"
quote from: Paul Dirac in 1929
"when I say 'yes', it does not mean that I agree; it means only that you should go on."
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2012, 09:44:35 »

That'd leave you with a HUGE bill though? Haven't heard of any plans for data to get cheaper as it gets faster....
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Zat0ichi
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2012, 09:47:14 »

That'd leave you with a HUGE bill though? Haven't heard of any plans for data to get cheaper as it gets faster....

yes, 1 hour of iplayer HD is 1gb
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quote from: confucius in 578bc @ about teatime
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance"
quote from: Paul Dirac in 1929
"when I say 'yes', it does not mean that I agree; it means only that you should go on."
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2012, 13:00:58 »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17125468
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2012, 13:04:50 »

If i'm with Virgin "usain bolt" Media, does it actually mean I can watch a youtube video without it buffering ?
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2012, 13:07:16 »

If i'm with Virgin "usain bolt" Media, does it actually mean I can watch a youtube video without it buffering ?

lul Iain what are you on at the moment? WIndup Internets?
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« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2012, 13:08:43 »

If i'm with Virgin "usain bolt" Media, does it actually mean I can watch a youtube video without it buffering ?

lul Iain what are you on at the moment? WIndup Internets?

Virgin Media's fastest broadband  Huh its just sh*t. Even on a brand new lappy it struggles and it isn't the wifi as I use a cable
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« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2012, 13:50:53 »

Bloody hell, that's bad, I barely get any of that, and I'm on stoneage ADSL
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« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2012, 13:51:44 »

Thinking out of the box here, are you sure you don't have any leechers? Do you live in a shared house, or your own gaff?
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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2012, 13:51:51 »

Bloody hell, that's bad, I barely get any of that, and I'm on stoneage ADSL

I have contemplated contacting the OFT as to be fair they should have used James Cordon not Usain Bolt
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« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2012, 13:52:05 »

LMFAO
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2012, 14:17:14 »

I get youtube buffering problems on my Virgin connection but often times if I try a different video of the same length/quality it will work fine. Not sure if the problem is contention at the Virgin end or server load at the youtube end but it ain't just a slow connection as I can have torrents whizzing along at 1-2MB/sec without trouble but if I pause them and try to play certain 'tube vids at certain times it just doesn't work.
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2012, 22:18:37 »

Fuck 4G, what about sorting 3G coverage in Bristol first!  Orange 3g coverage is shite, I have to set my iphone to 2G to get any coverage most of the time.
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Zat0ichi
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« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2012, 10:28:38 »

doesn't deserve its own thread.

padfone - its specs have been released.

google it
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quote from: confucius in 578bc @ about teatime
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance"
quote from: Paul Dirac in 1929
"when I say 'yes', it does not mean that I agree; it means only that you should go on."
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« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2012, 11:18:43 »

Fuck 4G, what about sorting 3G coverage in Bristol first!  Orange 3g coverage is shite, I have to set my iphone to 2G to get any coverage most of the time.

Seconded

Its terrible how they plan to roll out a new faster service just to sell more expensive phones and data packages which will only work in 5% of the country when the truth of it is that the existing 2G and 3G are barely coping with demand, struggle to give you reception especially in the countryside and are in bad need of improvement. but then the phone companies don't want to spend the cash on improving the networks when they can just provide you with the bare minimum. 

3G is plenty fast enough if you have a good signal without contention. 7mbps ffs... faster than my virgin internet connection most of the time. Just improve coverage and capacity please!!!

I thought Orange customers could access the T-mobile 3G network now or is it only the other way round? I know I can access Orange networks and I'm on T-mobile.

rant over
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« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2012, 11:30:56 »

but then the phone companies don't want to spend the cash on improving the networks when they can just provide you with the bare minimum. 


I don't know the agenda of phone companies, but I do work in planning appeals. When I started working in planning 6 years ago, we had endless appeals from various telecom companies trying to station new monopole antennas across the country. The biggest problem they face is the NIMBYs who still believe they are getting illnesses from the mast emissions, or just don't want another piece of street furniture. So don't blame the companies, blame the general public and local authorities who prevent companies from stationing antennas.
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« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2012, 11:31:35 »

I thought Orange customers could access the T-mobile 3G network now or is it only the other way round? I know I can access Orange networks and I'm on T-mobile.

yup, cell tower sharing goes both ways.

thinking about it, if they are increasing avlaible speed then maybe that's an increase in available bandwidth per tower.
More bandwidth could mean more people at slower that uber 4g speed?
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quote from: confucius in 578bc @ about teatime
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance"
quote from: Paul Dirac in 1929
"when I say 'yes', it does not mean that I agree; it means only that you should go on."
.
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« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2012, 11:46:12 »

Fuck 4G, what about sorting 3G coverage in Bristol first!  Orange 3g coverage is shite, I have to set my iphone to 2G to get any coverage most of the time.

Seconded

Its terrible how they plan to roll out a new faster service just to sell more expensive phones and data packages which will only work in 5% of the country when the truth of it is that the existing 2G and 3G are barely coping with demand, struggle to give you reception especially in the countryside and are in bad need of improvement. but then the phone companies don't want to spend the cash on improving the networks when they can just provide you with the bare minimum.  

3G is plenty fast enough if you have a good signal without contention. 7mbps ffs... faster than my virgin internet connection most of the time. Just improve coverage and capacity please!!!

I thought Orange customers could access the T-mobile 3G network now or is it only the other way round? I know I can access Orange networks and I'm on T-mobile.

rant over


The Networks are completely overloaded due to the rise of smart phones - here is nice graph from Cisco.



The cost of providing this data coverage using traditional network infrastructure (eg a big load of expensive stuff at the bottom of a mast) is massive, even with faster standards.

What is needed is lots and lots of smaller, cheaper cells rather than few large cells to provide localised data coverage and fill holes - this is happening but happening slowly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_Cells
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femtocell

The article in the OP is talking about HSPA+ which is 3G with some enhanced performance, it is certainly not 4G.

LTE (4G) network will be rolled out using smaller cells so 'should' (maybe) be better. LTE is years away from being rolled out nationwide.

 
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« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2012, 12:03:05 »

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/solutions/collateral/ns341/ns525/ns537/ns705/ns827/white_paper_c11-520862.html

Quote from: cisco
The proliferation of high-end handsets, tablets, and laptops on mobile networks is a major generator of traffic, because these devices offer the consumer content and applications not supported by previous generations of mobile devices. As shown in Figure 4, a single smartphone can generate as much traffic as 35 basic-feature phones; a tablet as much traffic as much as 121 basic-feature phones; and a single laptop can generate as much traffic as 498 basic-feature phones.


Figure 4. High-End Devices Significantly Multiply Traffic
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« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2012, 12:09:29 »

I see your points... 4G has more economical modulations techniques allowing greater bits per Mhz in theory...

"each E-UTRAN cell will support up to four times the data and voice capacity supported by HSPA"

I remember "coded orthagonal frequency division multiplexing" as a crazy funny sentence at uni... however, it seems now that I understand it application. Basically 2G networks work on TDM and FDM whereas 3G works using CDMA. I believe 4G is going to be using the same 2G technology but with higher datarates and more modern encoding/QAM

My analogy is thus:

There are 5 people in a room all trying to have a conversation with the guy in the middle at the same time

Time division multiplexing: The all take it in turns to talk to him
Frequency division multiplexing: They all talk at the same time but in different frequencies (high voices and low voices)
OFDM: A combination of both (used in LTE "4G")
CDMA (3G): They all talk at the same time and their voices have a wide bandwidth of pitch but they talk in different languages. Only the guy in the middle can speak all the languages. The other people in the room can't understand eachother and it just sounds like noise.

Therefore with 2G/4G TDM and FDM you get squeezed into smaller and smaller slices of frequency and time but you still have your slice allocated and the conversation slows down but doesn't stop.

However, with 3G everything works great until more people join the room and guy at the back can't hear the guy in the middle so he raises his voice (more power). Other people in the room talk louder to overcome the noise and the room gets louder still. eventually everyone is shouting as loud as they can and no-one can understand anything (SNR too low) and the system grinds to a halt.

So the moral of the story is that if you want to check your emails at a busy festival... you're better off switching to 2G.

It'll be interesting to see how this rolls out over the next few years.
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« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2012, 13:20:03 »

If i'm with Virgin "usain bolt" Media, does it actually mean I can watch a youtube video without it buffering ?

lul Iain what are you on at the moment? WIndup Internets?

Virgin Media's fastest broadband  Huh its just sh*t. Even on a brand new lappy it struggles and it isn't the wifi as I use a cable

Interesting, I'm on their 10MB and it's absolutely fine. Phone them up and give them a grilling.

I see their doubling their speeds to all customers over the course of the next 12 months... I'm not sure that will apply to you, though - although I reckon you're bill will be cheaper .... but that's a different thread altogether.
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« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2012, 13:40:56 »

If i'm with Virgin "usain bolt" Media, does it actually mean I can watch a youtube video without it buffering ?

lul Iain what are you on at the moment? WIndup Internets?

Virgin Media's fastest broadband  Huh its just sh*t. Even on a brand new lappy it struggles and it isn't the wifi as I use a cable

Interesting, I'm on their 10MB and it's absolutely fine. Phone them up and give them a grilling.

I see their doubling their speeds to all customers over the course of the next 12 months... I'm not sure that will apply to you, though - although I reckon you're bill will be cheaper .... but that's a different thread altogether.

Or take it upon yourself to troubleshoot your connection. Traceroute, ping, and speedtest various national and international servers as well as Virgins own internal UBR network to determine your bottleneck  Two Thumbs
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« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2012, 13:48:06 »

If i'm with Virgin "usain bolt" Media, does it actually mean I can watch a youtube video without it buffering ?

lul Iain what are you on at the moment? WIndup Internets?

Virgin Media's fastest broadband  Huh its just sh*t. Even on a brand new lappy it struggles and it isn't the wifi as I use a cable

Interesting, I'm on their 10MB and it's absolutely fine. Phone them up and give them a grilling.

I see their doubling their speeds to all customers over the course of the next 12 months... I'm not sure that will apply to you, though - although I reckon you're bill will be cheaper .... but that's a different thread altogether.

Or take it upon yourself to troubleshoot your connection. Traceroute, ping, and speedtest various national and international servers as well as Virgins own internal UBR network to determine your bottleneck  Two Thumbs

Aye, there is that as well  Grin
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Hermaphrodite yes, tranny no. A cock is still a cock, regardless of whether it's attached to a cracking pair of fake tits.

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