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Recommend I reason or logic or cubase?!?!?

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tomgrant(headrush)
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« on: November 16, 2011, 10:44:19 »

Hi, difficult to explain in a subject line, but basically i have been wanting to get a simple set up to start playing around and making some music for a while but not had the spare cash to actually buy anything. Ive been saving for a while now and have enough for one of the express packages of either reason, Logic or cubase. Was wondering if anyone had any golden advice on any of these? I guess its all down to personal preference but as an express package are any of them so simplified they are not worth the money in the first place and i should wait until i can afford the real thing. Im mainly looking for something that is a good sequencer where sampling / chopping and time stretching is simple and as seemless as possible. Something that connects well with hardware - as i hope to buy some pieces here and there is i get into it. Basic but reasonable quality mastering / EQing and some simple effects - probably mainly want to use delay, reverb, distortion. Im not looking for something to digital DJ with, nothing will replace vinyl for me. Production only is what i am after.

I have tried the reason demo and i like its intuitiveness but its incompatibility with some things worries me that it could become limiting, it also the most expensive at about 300 euros. One thing i like about reason is its sound generating abilities. good drum machines and synths already in built might mean that i wont be wanting to buy extra hardware as soon as i buy it. Also several of my favourite producers use reason - basic soul unit / claro intelecto and Andy stott - thats not a justification for buying it all, what that means to me is that it generates the sort of sounds and noises that i like to hear and will probably want to include in whatever i make - certianly at the begining anyway as a starting point.

Logic looks good and based on how good everyone says full logic is then this might be the one. Its sequencing abilities also look good. Weighing in at 200 euros its more of an intermediate.

Cubase at the cheapest (100) seems like it has quite a lot of features but is it so stripped down that i will end up feeling like ive wasted my money? being cheaper though, it might leave me some breathing space to buy things like a basic midi controller etc, that i will need at some point.

Fruity loops is out of the question as my laptop is fuckered, so ive only got an old mac.


any help is much appreciated

thijack
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2011, 20:05:04 »

Well I'm a big fan of Logic. I have 9 Pro. If you have an old mac though (PPC?) then 8 is the highest you can go. 9 has Flextime which is pretty cool. Not sure what instruments you get with the express version either, but there are plenty of free synths about such as those from Togu Audio Line. I've tried Cubase a couple of times but never really got on with it.
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tomgrant(headrush)
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2011, 08:58:38 »

Well I'm a big fan of Logic. I have 9 Pro. If you have an old mac though (PPC?) then 8 is the highest you can go. 9 has Flextime which is pretty cool. Not sure what instruments you get with the express version either, but there are plenty of free synths about such as those from Togu Audio Line. I've tried Cubase a couple of times but never really got on with it.

thanks for the advice. Part of the problem might become the computer i will be using, however, upgrading a computer is out of the question for some time. Ive watched people use cubase and it looks good but that might just be because it works for them and they are pretty fast and getting results from it. I get the feeling though that the lgiht version of it will only be good at sequencing and to do anything good i would have to buy a fair amount of gear.

for logic, its sound like what i want and a fair intermediate, and it looks like you can buy a full version of 8 on ebay for about 150 quid.

maybe not worth getting a basic version of reason 6 when the full version of 5 is not much more

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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2011, 16:16:13 »

Well I'm a big fan of Logic. I have 9 Pro. If you have an old mac though (PPC?) then 8 is the highest you can go. 9 has Flextime which is pretty cool. Not sure what instruments you get with the express version either, but there are plenty of free synths about such as those from Togu Audio Line. I've tried Cubase a couple of times but never really got on with it.

thanks for the advice. Part of the problem might become the computer i will be using, however, upgrading a computer is out of the question for some time. Ive watched people use cubase and it looks good but that might just be because it works for them and they are pretty fast and getting results from it. I get the feeling though that the lgiht version of it will only be good at sequencing and to do anything good i would have to buy a fair amount of gear.

for logic, its sound like what i want and a fair intermediate, and it looks like you can buy a full version of 8 on ebay for about 150 quid.

maybe not worth getting a basic version of reason 6 when the full version of 5 is not much more


What spec is your mac?
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tomgrant(headrush)
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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2011, 16:56:07 »

Mac OS X 10.4.11
2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1 Gb 667 Mhz DDR SDRAM

which i guess rules out reason 6, Logic 9 and cubase elements 6.

Reason 5 is doable, plus need an audio interface.
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 17:56:33 »

Mac OS X 10.4.11
2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1 Gb 667 Mhz DDR SDRAM

which i guess rules out reason 6, Logic 9 and cubase elements 6.

Reason 5 is doable, plus need an audio interface.
I'm running Logic 9 pro on a slightly lesser Intel processor than that. Though I'm on leopard. You in Bristol?
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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2011, 10:14:00 »

Alright Tom....

My 2 pennies worth - i don't personally rate reason that much, some people do, but for me it just isn't up to scratch... Logic is awesome but it is complicated and is a bit fiddly for audio IMO ( iam sure it is fine when you get used to it though) . I personally use ableton for production  which i think handles audio better and is easier to get to grips with, but as i say these are just my personal preferences. Out of Logic/ Reason i would give Logic the vote every time, far better quality EQs and built in synths etc than reason, having said that i have't used any of the express or lite versions so i don;t know how much comes with it..

I have never used cubase so i can't comment on this at all...
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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2011, 10:25:34 »

@Snoo - Im not in bristol no sadly. Based in Germany which makes things complicated for finding information out. Naturally i would just bug everyone i know in bristol until i had some idea fo what to do.


@Bolton - Cheers for your input. I think, although all the great things i hear about albeton, it might be too expensive for me. My main concern is blowing a fortune on something that i end up not liking much. On top of what i need for ableton i would have to get an audio interface and a midi controller, which really pushes me over budget. Having said that id rather pay more and get something that i will be happy using for a long time and not be wanting to upgrade after two months.

I am think for the moment, i just want to create sounds with some sequencing abilities. so reason is appealing for that so that is one option. or i just go and get either cubase or logic ligh versions, use them for sequencing editing and EQing, then get a cheap ass drum machine, a guitar delay pedal, an audio interface, a field recorder and a shed load of smaples. Find my producing feet and see what works, bash out some ideas then maybe look into something more pro if i actually come up with anything fruitfull. Seeing as i will need an audio interface for anything i would want to buy later, and i would want a drum machine, delay pedal and field recorder anyway.

Got a couple of months before i want to spend the money so im open to other suggestions
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« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2011, 15:10:10 »

@Snoo - Im not in bristol no sadly. Based in Germany which makes things complicated for finding information out. Naturally i would just bug everyone i know in bristol until i had some idea fo what to do.


@Bolton - Cheers for your input. I think, although all the great things i hear about albeton, it might be too expensive for me. My main concern is blowing a fortune on something that i end up not liking much. On top of what i need for ableton i would have to get an audio interface and a midi controller, which really pushes me over budget. Having said that id rather pay more and get something that i will be happy using for a long time and not be wanting to upgrade after two months.

I am think for the moment, i just want to create sounds with some sequencing abilities. so reason is appealing for that so that is one option. or i just go and get either cubase or logic ligh versions, use them for sequencing editing and EQing, then get a cheap ass drum machine, a guitar delay pedal, an audio interface, a field recorder and a shed load of smaples. Find my producing feet and see what works, bash out some ideas then maybe look into something more pro if i actually come up with anything fruitfull. Seeing as i will need an audio interface for anything i would want to buy later, and i would want a drum machine, delay pedal and field recorder anyway.

Got a couple of months before i want to spend the money so im open to other suggestions

you can definately get a lite version of ableton too mate https://www.ableton.com/shop/categories/intro , i might even have a disc of 'live lite' that came with a midi controller i bought, i will have a look. you won't necessarilly have to get an interface until you decide producing is for you. You could always use the headphone jack of the laptop into an amp,  you get better sound quality from an interace, but at the beggining stage no need to shell out for anything until you are sure it is for you.

talking of field recordings and samples - try www.freesound.org, shed loads of both on there that you can download legally, hit the random sound bitton for some wacky sounds! i could spend hours on there
..
Good luck with teh experiments, it is a lot of fun!
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my Dj Pages....
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<a href="http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F10041212" target="_blank">http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F10041212</a>
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« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2011, 15:31:16 »

@Snoo - Im not in bristol no sadly. Based in Germany which makes things complicated for finding information out. Naturally i would just bug everyone i know in bristol until i had some idea fo what to do.


@Bolton - Cheers for your input. I think, although all the great things i hear about albeton, it might be too expensive for me. My main concern is blowing a fortune on something that i end up not liking much. On top of what i need for ableton i would have to get an audio interface and a midi controller, which really pushes me over budget. Having said that id rather pay more and get something that i will be happy using for a long time and not be wanting to upgrade after two months.

I am think for the moment, i just want to create sounds with some sequencing abilities. so reason is appealing for that so that is one option. or i just go and get either cubase or logic ligh versions, use them for sequencing editing and EQing, then get a cheap ass drum machine, a guitar delay pedal, an audio interface, a field recorder and a shed load of smaples. Find my producing feet and see what works, bash out some ideas then maybe look into something more pro if i actually come up with anything fruitfull. Seeing as i will need an audio interface for anything i would want to buy later, and i would want a drum machine, delay pedal and field recorder anyway.

Got a couple of months before i want to spend the money so im open to other suggestions

you can definately get a lite version of ableton too mate https://www.ableton.com/shop/categories/intro , i might even have a disc of 'live lite' that came with a midi controller i bought, i will have a look. you won't necessarilly have to get an interface until you decide producing is for you. You could always use the headphone jack of the laptop into an amp,  you get better sound quality from an interace, but at the beggining stage no need to shell out for anything until you are sure it is for you.

talking of field recordings and samples - try www.freesound.org, shed loads of both on there that you can download legally, hit the random sound bitton for some wacky sounds! i could spend hours on there
..
Good luck with teh experiments, it is a lot of fun!


Thanks man, ableton live intro might be a good start, and there is a demo so i think i might give it a go this weekend and see what happens - it also works on os x 10.4. This now makes me very tempted to go for a set up of ableton live intro + hardware (any experience of a microkorg or alesis SR16? *edit - yeah these might be cliches but they are well priced and easy to get hold of so that ive seen so far*). Use ableton for sequencing etc, which should make it a bit faster and more intuitive, then bash out some sounds on hardware when i can find / work out what stuff i can afford / enjoy using.
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2011, 09:47:43 »

I run Cubase on an old G5 Quad. Not sure which yours is on the list

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/371545-logic-pro-multicore-benchmarktest.html

but I'm sure it is more powerful than my computer,

Reason used to be a efficient program (not used it in years!) which didn't task the CPU and I'm sure that is still the case. But it is slightly restricted, unless you re-wire it to a fuller specced DAW.

All DAWs are as good as each other and if you haven't had much experience with any, then you can pick one and learn it without worrying if it is the best. If you have anyone around you that makes music, see what they are using, because it will be a huge benefit if you can get some practical experience. If you can't find anyone, then see what demos you can get a hold of. I don't think Cubase do one without having to get the dongle though.

I wouldn't worry about the SR16, you can get the drums sounds easily plus for the moment you might as well learn a program first. I've not used a Microkorg, but I think you would benefit more from a good controller keyboard with a few sliders and knobs. Something like the Akai MPK range or the Novation range.

Also you will find loads of tutorials on the net, so have a read of the manual or just google when you get stuck.
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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2011, 17:31:20 »

I run Cubase on an old G5 Quad. Not sure which yours is on the list

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/371545-logic-pro-multicore-benchmarktest.html

but I'm sure it is more powerful than my computer,

Reason used to be a efficient program (not used it in years!) which didn't task the CPU and I'm sure that is still the case. But it is slightly restricted, unless you re-wire it to a fuller specced DAW.

All DAWs are as good as each other and if you haven't had much experience with any, then you can pick one and learn it without worrying if it is the best. If you have anyone around you that makes music, see what they are using, because it will be a huge benefit if you can get some practical experience. If you can't find anyone, then see what demos you can get a hold of. I don't think Cubase do one without having to get the dongle though.

I wouldn't worry about the SR16, you can get the drums sounds easily plus for the moment you might as well learn a program first. I've not used a Microkorg, but I think you would benefit more from a good controller keyboard with a few sliders and knobs. Something like the Akai MPK range or the Novation range.

Also you will find loads of tutorials on the net, so have a read of the manual or just google when you get stuck.

thankyou, this advice is perfect. I have had a fair bit of experience with the reason demo, and enjoyed using it way too much even though it automatically closed after 20 minutes. So i feel at home with it already which is a plus, i know the basics / what it can do etc. The only bad things i have heard is that it is not VST compatible but in all honesty i dont ever see myself heading towards wanting to use VSTs, if anything i am most likely to tend towards hardware as soon as i can. after looking at loads of videos of analogue hardware i dont think i could get anywhere near the fun out of a VST. As far i have seen reason is a good halfway house in terms of its layout for moving on to hardware. The only drawback (or maybe plus in some ways) is that i dont know anyone who uses reason - most people seem to use ablteon or cubase. I can though, see myself getting a light version of ableton so that i can do more live jamming with what i have but that is probably a long way off from where i am now. also reason five full version isnt actually that pricey compared to others.

after hearing some of the pre-sets on the SR16 i am a bit put off, same goes for the microkorg a bit now - although it looks to be a good entry level synth. all that sort of stuff, you are right, i should wait before getting to know a DAW first. Ive been wanting to get into this stuff for way too long, and the prospect of being able to right now, ive got more than a little ahead of myself, and i need to calm down a bit.
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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2011, 12:29:53 »

http://www.reaper.fm/
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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2011, 13:01:53 »

Whilst I think Reaper is great I was under the impression it wasn't so hot for Midi and production that leans more heavily 'inside the box'? Happy to be proven wrong on that  Grin
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« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2011, 13:29:25 »

I suggested it more as the 'try it out before committing hundreds of s to something you might not want to do' option.

Otherwise I'd suggest Reason as the tool to do your learning on. Two Thumbs
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« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2011, 13:37:34 »

yeah ive got reaper on my laptop, which i use for recording mixes - i broke the headphone jack pretty badly and now no sound comes out of the damn thing but the input works fine. I didnt know that there was a Mac version for it so i might have a bit of a play this week along with a bit of a go on the demo version of ableton live lite. If i dont get on so well with those i think reason might be the one.
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« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2011, 14:12:12 »

Many places do a package deal of Ableton Live Lite alongside an outboard controller. (KORG MPD clone, etc) You can upgrade to full Ableton Live for @70, theres also a sale on everything Ableton nationwide til Jan the 15th.
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