This Minimal Techno / Dubstep ting ?

[stealth]

There seems to be a lot of buzz building about a Minimal Techno & Dubstep crossover ATM. To be honest, minimal techno leaves me 100% stone cold (sounds like coffee-table techno IMO), but Tom Peverelist's 'Erstwhile Rhythm' is simply genius and seems to be at the centre of this hype, along with Pinch's 'Qawwali' amongst others.

So are the similarity of sounds just a coincidence, or are we on the cusp of an exciting twist in the dubstep continuum ?

[Uncle Basic]

Very much so an exciting twist...HOWEVER, the introduction of this may cause dubstep to go even further overground as maybe more people 'get' 4/4 rhythm than dubstep's patterns, maybe? Not IMO but just feel there is that potential now, it sits at a crossroads to where it goes now...I think you've been listening to the wrong techno - 'minimal' is just a buzzword like any other and IMO it's all just techno.

But one thing is for sure - this year is going to be very interesting in the development of both scenes...

[bubonic]

As we all know, I am somewhat 4 to the floor challenged. And having listened to a couple of minimal techno people recently, I am on the fence a bit. When it's done well and the right influences are involved then this techno inspired dubstep is fucking rocking. Peverelist's tunes are evidence of this, as well as DMZ's Left Leg Out and Changes. I just hope dubstep keeps it's synocpation and shuffles because shit gets boring as soon as people treat beats as metronomes (which seems to happen all to often in techno).

[Andy Payback HiFi]

I've heard Puffin Jack do the minimal/dubstep thing together and it sounded great. When you think about Basic Channel stuff, the connection isn't that hard to imagine.

[stealth]

the introduction of this may cause dubstep to go even further overground as maybe more people 'get' 4/4 rhythm than dubstep's patterns, maybe?

That's a very good point. I'm not against Dubstep gaining more popularity at all,especially if peeps from Bristol are the main reason for it, as long as the quality control is high. Unfortunately, Dubstep's rise in popularity last year did lead to a massive amount of crap being produced. It would be a shame if this 'hybrid sound' meant yet more crap being put out there. 

[Uncle Basic]

Because I come from more of a techno background it's the other way round for me, things like Anti-War Dub made Dubstep more interesting to me...it took me a while to 'understand' dubstep but now I can enjoy it without sctaching my head! Plus there's almost as many sub-genres in it as techno  

[ThinKing]

err, Villalobos vs Pinch on the upcoming Breezeblock??


I dunno, I'm all for cross-pollination, but if every halfwit bedroom producer jumps on 4/4 like they did the halfstep last year it will be just as counter-productive. The crossover with minimal has been of interest to me more because it harks back to the early days of dubstep (or any burgenoning scene for that matter) when there used to be experimentation, producers drawing influence from outside a scene rather than within.


Anyway I'm more excited about TRG's stuff and Peverelist's Roll With The Punches than any of the 4/4 stuff about atm. And the new Toasty stuff. And Scuba. And some new kid known as 'Joe'. And this new untitled Zomby riddim. In fact I'm more excited about new tunes & producers in dubstep right now than I have been in a long time.

[puffin jack]

Bit harsh on minimal mate, you sure you listening to the right stuff and not just what is currently being played by Tong et al? Have you ever checked Basic Channel or Sahko? I remember around the time of the first Tempa releases there was a lot of similarf talk saying how Horsepower were the Croydon equivalent of Basic Channel, because of the way they approached Garage. ie. dubbed out reductionism.

I think it can only be good thing for the two to move closer together, dubstep could learn a lot from techno's sonic palette. I mean I like dubstep, a lot, but some of the productions are let down by the er, productions. Take Geoim for example, I love his stuff but he could really tighten his sounds up a bit, they sound too sludgy sometimes. He should maybe send his tracks to Stefan Betke aka Pole to be mastered!

If you check www.hardwax.de, probably the best techno shop in Europe you will see they have been all over dubstep for a while. Did anyone else know that the grime remix on that Modeselektor 12" from last year was actually by Sleep Archive?

Also Pete I think you are a little unfair saying about the metronome thing, a lot of more interseting, recent techno has a more syncopated feel to it, not a strict 4/4, leave that to the hard housers, and anyway how many dubstep records have that same boring halfstep beat?

as long as there is intersting music coming out its all good  

[stealth]

@ Andy Payback: Got a link for that mix mate ?

Anyway I'm more excited about TRG's stuff and Peverelist's Roll With The Punches than any of the 4/4 stuff about atm. And the new Toasty stuff

Fuckin' 
I'd prefer more syncopation and garage vibes then minimal influences any day.

[puffin jack]

oh yeah and by the way, I love posts like this! Gives you a chance to get fired up, beats people taking the piss out of scrampy all day..

[Uncle Basic]

Totally agree Puffster, however minimal has befallen the same fate as many sub-genres where a few years back it was ripe with experimentation and now big name producers with no real idea about the style have realised it's a money maker and put out increasingly boring stuff. Or were, as they've all switched over to electrohouse. If dubstep is the sound to revitalise the minimal scene then I'm all for it. I've got very bored of minimal due to the quality control going out of the window, five years back it seemed something amazing was being released every week...now it's all abit, well, tired.

[A.]

if every halfwit bedroom producer jumps on 4/4 like they did the halfstep last year it will be just as counter-productive.

Love what I've heard but if this "crossover" gets too hyped it will result in a brief period of excitement followed by extended boredom.
The whole genre thing is long, people should be doing what they feel and thats that. I know we all need names to chat about music but I dont see the dubstep/minimal crossover as that big a deal, IMO these crossovers are usually a lot more organic than people make out and rather than a deliberate attempt to "crossover" its just the product of 2 (or more) sounds developing and bumping into each other 

[stealth]

oh yeah and by the way, I love posts like this! Gives you a chance to get fired up, beats people taking the piss out of scrampy all day..

 

Exactly why I did it mate, the 'Jack seems to be lacking topics like this at present. 

As for your earlier post, I do love Basic Channel stuff, but IMO it's not really 'dancefloor' fodder, but then again I haven't heard it on a loud system, so I could be balking tollocks !

Also, maybe I haven't listened to decent minimal - help a brother out ! 

[puffin jack]

Totally agree Puffster, however minimal has befallen the same fate as many sub-genres where a few years back it was ripe with experimentation and now big name producers with no real idea about the style have realised it's a money maker and put out increasingly boring stuff. Or were, as they've all switched over to electrohouse. If dubstep is the sound to revitalise the minimal scene then I'm all for it. I've got very bored of minimal due to the quality control going out of the window, five years back it seemed something amazing was being released every week...now it's all abit, well, tired.

You say that but recently, and I mean in the last six months there has been some brilliant Berlin style minimal coming out. Ost Gut Ton is my new favourite label, proper minimal. Also the return of Substance and Vanquer has been greatly appreciated, and correct me if i'm wrong but Monolake is absolutely killing it at the mo! If you want to check a good dubstep/minimal crossover check the ultra slo-mo Substance remix of Monolake, tis superb!

On the other hand there is loads of shit coming out on the minimal scene, a trawl through the new releases at Chemical will show you that. Fucking bandwagon jumpers. I remeber when minimal was a dirty word!

[tokolosh]

Dubstep = Croydon techno (some )

Dont think this is particuarly new, stuff like Twis Up Vip sounds like techno to me regardless of wether the beat is 4/4, it is more the feel of it.

[Uncle Basic]

Totally agree Puffster, however minimal has befallen the same fate as many sub-genres where a few years back it was ripe with experimentation and now big name producers with no real idea about the style have realised it's a money maker and put out increasingly boring stuff. Or were, as they've all switched over to electrohouse. If dubstep is the sound to revitalise the minimal scene then I'm all for it. I've got very bored of minimal due to the quality control going out of the window, five years back it seemed something amazing was being released every week...now it's all abit, well, tired.

You say that but recently, and I mean in the last six months there has been some brilliant Berlin style minimal coming out. Ost Gut Ton is my new favourite label, proper minimal. Also the return of Substance and Vanquer has been greatly appreciated, and correct me if i'm wrong but Monolake is absolutely killing it at the mo! If you want to check a good dubstep/minimal crossover check the ultra slo-mo Substance remix of Monolake, tis superb!

On the other hand there is loads of shit coming out on the minimal scene, a trawl through the new releases at Chemical will show you that. Fucking bandwagon jumpers. I remeber when minimal was a dirty word!

Don't get me wrong, minimal still has it's place, and I do like a lot of Monolake's stuff, but the days when a nice bit of Eulberg or a new Sweet N Candy release fired me up are long gone. Ironically I'm working on doing a minimal mix with old stuff at the mo with Ozer, Guido Schneider etc etc...pretty dark stuff which is the end of the spectrum I enjoyed.

[pete sclist]

I wouldnt say minimal, but 'techy' .. it makes dubstep a lot more attractive to me .. looking forward to what is yet to come 

[puffin jack]

oh yeah and by the way, I love posts like this! Gives you a chance to get fired up, beats people taking the piss out of scrampy all day..

 

Exactly why I did it mate, the 'Jack seems to be lacking topics like this at present. 

As for your earlier post, I do love Basic Channel stuff, but IMO it's not really 'dancefloor' fodder, but then again, I haven't heard it on a loud system, so I could be balking tollocks !

Also, maybe I haven't listened to decent minimal - help a brother out ! 

Yes! hijack needs it

I know what you mean about Basic Channel, on first appearances it could seem a little dull (especially on the CD which sounds almost ambient!) but they really come alive over a good system. You start to hear shit in them you never have before, a lot of the sounds are so subtle you don'y notice them at first. In terms of Basic Channel I would recomend Phylps Track 2, one of my all time favourites as well as any of the Quadrant releases. Basic Channel's sister label, M also had some brilliant stuff on it, aimed more at dubbed out dancefloors. Check M4, M5 and Domina are probably the best. Also there is a great Carl Craig remix of Domina.

More recent stuff I could recomend pretty much anything on Luciano's Cadenza label, its a bit more tripped out and spacey. Villalobos's best work is probably 'Achso' which appears on the Cadenza. As I think of some more stuff you might like i'll post it up, my head is full of cold and I feel really groggy so may be a while....

[pete sclist]

Dont think this is particuarly new

haha .. I was waiting for that 

no doubt it's particulary new, but now its becoming trendy 

[stealth]

I would recommend Phylps Track 2, one of my all time favourites as well as any of the Quadrant releases.

Aaaah yes mate, I absolutely LUUURVE that track.

Will definitely check out the other recommendation though, nice one. 

[bubonic]

Bit harsh on minimal mate, you sure you listening to the right stuff and not just what is currently being played by Tong et al? Have you ever checked Basic Channel or Sahko? I remember around the time of the first Tempa releases there was a lot of similarf talk saying how Horsepower were the Croydon equivalent of Basic Channel, because of the way they approached Garage. ie. dubbed out reductionism.

I think it can only be good thing for the two to move closer together, dubstep could learn a lot from techno's sonic palette. I mean I like dubstep, a lot, but some of the productions are let down by the er, productions. Take Geoim for example, I love his stuff but he could really tighten his sounds up a bit, they sound too sludgy sometimes. He should maybe send his tracks to Stefan Betke aka Pole to be mastered!

If you check www.hardwax.de, probably the best techno shop in Europe you will see they have been all over dubstep for a while. Did anyone else know that the grime remix on that Modeselektor 12" from last year was actually by Sleep Archive?

Also Pete I think you are a little unfair saying about the metronome thing, a lot of more interseting, recent techno has a more syncopated feel to it, not a strict 4/4, leave that to the hard housers, and anyway how many dubstep records have that same boring halfstep beat?

as long as there is intersting music coming out its all good 

Well, I must admit my exposure to Minimal Techno is somewhat limited, I have only been to a couple of nights that have played it. The first I thoroughly enjoyed and was really impressed with the level of design and arrangement in the tunes, the really carried the tunes along. But the second, with Andy Stott (don't really know what you class him as) played loads of techno and it was really really dull. Peverelist played a really really heavily techno inspired set at Cosies (I think it was at Cosies...) and to be honest, it wasn't as enjoyable as I had hoped. I thoroughly enjoyed the sound design and attention to detail, but again the beats and lack of syncopation just bored me after a while and I fear i am going to be unable to shake this lust for actual break beats and irregular rhythms. Even when DMZ do do their techno inspired beats, the rhythms themselves are geniously invented. Bury the Bwoy is a prime example of this. It would be a techno tune if it wasn't for the quality stagger on the bass kicks and large amounts of sub.

I have heard absolutely no Basic Channel so if anyone has any links I'm always up for a listen. 

[puffin jack]

I agree with you on that Pete, I thought Andy Stott was Ok at Cosies, but certainly not overly impressed. Much as I love Under_Score I think Stott is probably better suited to playing big warehouse spaces. Asd to what genre I would put him in I would say, deep breath.... Detroit inspired warehouse techno, with some minimal leanings, ahem..

In all this I forgot to say how good that Peverelist 12", I was blown away when Tom gave me copy. Not only does it have that techno thang going on, the bass line on 'Ertswhile riddim' is the best jungle/d'n'b bass line this side of 1995!  

[bubonic]

I agree with you on that Pete, I thought Andy Stott was Ok at Cosies, but certainly not overly impressed. Much as I love Under_Score I think Stott is probably better suited to playing big warehouse spaces. Asd to what genre I would put him in I would say, deep breath.... Detroit inspired warehouse techno, with some minimal leanings, ahem..

Ahh right 

In all this I forgot to say how good that Peverelist 12", I was blown away when Tom gave me copy. Not only does it have that techno thang going on, the bass line on 'Ertswhile riddim' is the best jungle/d'n'b bass line this side of 1995! 

It's something else. 

[A.]

You lot may like this topic on dubstep forum too.....
http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=14915
 

[stealth]

I have heard absolutely no Basic Channel so if anyone has any links I'm always up for a listen. 

I can think of a few albums that might whet your whistle and would be a good place to start. Thing is, Basic Channel tends to have a 'Marmite' effect on some peeps, so it might not be your cup of tea at all.

Anyway ...

Basic Channel 'Compiled' (Album with all their tracks on)
Scion 'Arrange And Process Basic Channel Tracks' (Good mix of Basic Channel Stuff)

Also, might be worth checking out...

Rhythm & Sound 'W/ The artists' (all about 'Queen of my Empire'  )
Rhythm & Sound 'W/ Paul St Hilare'

I think the latter would be more your cup of tea TBH. I've got all of the above, so if you want a copy let me know. I also have a WICKED Rhythm & Sound live mix with Tikiman pon the mic - I'll upload that in the next few days.

[puffin jack]

Also, might be worth checking out...

Rhythm & Sound 'W/ The artists' (all about 'Queen of my Empire'  )
Rhythm & Sound 'W/ Paul St Hilare'

Beyond Essential!   

[Andy Payback HiFi]

I have heard absolutely no Basic Channel so if anyone has any links I'm always up for a listen. 

I think the latter would be more your cup of tea TBH. I've got all of the above, so if you want a copy let me know. I also have a WICKED Rhythm & Sound live mix with Tikiman pon the mic - I'll upload that in the next few days.

Is this a mix of their own stuff, or them playing their rare 45's with Tikiman deejaying over the top?